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	<title>Comments on: The Major League Succubi: The Problems Plaguing the MLS</title>
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		<title>By: Mike D.</title>
		<link>http://www.gloriousfootball.com/mls/the-major-league-succubi-the-problems-plaguing-the-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-4405</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Feb 2010 11:28:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gloriousfootball.com/?p=1043#comment-4405</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s such a different demographic sport by sport.  The Knicks draw fans because it&#039;s still trendy to be seen at the Garden at a basketball game.  It only happens because they&#039;re the Knicks.  Look at Charlotte, Seattle, and a number of other clubs, even big clubs, in the NBA.  Charlotte moved (got a new franchise which also struggles numbers wise, but moved nonetheless), Seattle moved, even the Dallas Mavericks are struggling to fill seats.  Dare I even get started on the Pistons.  The success of the Knicks is purely on appealing to coolness, not the league or the quality of product.

The Mets will always do well enough, as this is a baseball hotbed, the northeast.  A season without baseball to talk about is utter crisis mode for many American sports fans.  And even still, the Mets shrunk their ballpark (moving into Citi) and by the end of the season tickets could be had even on Stubhub for 99 cents a pair, so the situation wasn&#039;t that great.

The Rangers I agree with are an anomaly, but in many ways are a testiment to how the NHL reaches out to and prioritizes fans and is bolstering their coverage and reach via quality peripheral coverage (web content, twitter content, etc.)

I think the reason they can&#039;t have ownership groups with free roam is because of how quick the general American sports fan tends to become disinterested.  This is also the reason for the playoffs, and the same reason the Mets had 99 cent tickets available for all of September.  Once the typical American fan knows their team is eliminated, good luck drawing them to the venue.  If you unleashed the cap, an organization like Red Bull could essentially &quot;go nuts&quot; and make RBNY the dominant force with no possible reply.  The American fan is not ready for a situation like the Big 4, they can&#039;t fathom that competition isn&#039;t even or at least has significant penalties for breaking the rules (the Yankees and their luxury tax payments).  This is the same reason the playoffs still have 8 of 16 teams -- it&#039;s not too difficult to get in to the second season, and with draws being prevalent and earning points, 12 or 13 teams have a shot right down to the wire.  You&#039;ve seen over the last two seasons what can happen by a mediocre team getting into the show (RBNY&#039;s miracle run to the Cup final and RSL winning it all).

Perhaps I&#039;m not giving American sports fans enough credit, but having been to a number of matches of all sports here, I can distinctly say that &quot;fandom&quot; here doesn&#039;t carry the same connotation that it does elsewhere in the world.  Maybe a few hundred fans carry the chanting load at a football (soccer) match.  There are maybe a handful of superfans per game at baseball or hockey games, playoffs aside.  It&#039;s really one of the most disappointing things about American sports.  Once you&#039;ve watched European sports you&#039;re immediately disappointed at the level of fan passion here, and that is one of the difficult things about soccer catching on.  It is very much a sport and a world phenomenon built on fan passion.  It may very well be that simple fact that is lacking here which is needed to take the MLS to the next level in the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s such a different demographic sport by sport.  The Knicks draw fans because it&#8217;s still trendy to be seen at the Garden at a basketball game.  It only happens because they&#8217;re the Knicks.  Look at Charlotte, Seattle, and a number of other clubs, even big clubs, in the NBA.  Charlotte moved (got a new franchise which also struggles numbers wise, but moved nonetheless), Seattle moved, even the Dallas Mavericks are struggling to fill seats.  Dare I even get started on the Pistons.  The success of the Knicks is purely on appealing to coolness, not the league or the quality of product.</p>
<p>The Mets will always do well enough, as this is a baseball hotbed, the northeast.  A season without baseball to talk about is utter crisis mode for many American sports fans.  And even still, the Mets shrunk their ballpark (moving into Citi) and by the end of the season tickets could be had even on Stubhub for 99 cents a pair, so the situation wasn&#8217;t that great.</p>
<p>The Rangers I agree with are an anomaly, but in many ways are a testiment to how the NHL reaches out to and prioritizes fans and is bolstering their coverage and reach via quality peripheral coverage (web content, twitter content, etc.)</p>
<p>I think the reason they can&#8217;t have ownership groups with free roam is because of how quick the general American sports fan tends to become disinterested.  This is also the reason for the playoffs, and the same reason the Mets had 99 cent tickets available for all of September.  Once the typical American fan knows their team is eliminated, good luck drawing them to the venue.  If you unleashed the cap, an organization like Red Bull could essentially &#8220;go nuts&#8221; and make RBNY the dominant force with no possible reply.  The American fan is not ready for a situation like the Big 4, they can&#8217;t fathom that competition isn&#8217;t even or at least has significant penalties for breaking the rules (the Yankees and their luxury tax payments).  This is the same reason the playoffs still have 8 of 16 teams &#8212; it&#8217;s not too difficult to get in to the second season, and with draws being prevalent and earning points, 12 or 13 teams have a shot right down to the wire.  You&#8217;ve seen over the last two seasons what can happen by a mediocre team getting into the show (RBNY&#8217;s miracle run to the Cup final and RSL winning it all).</p>
<p>Perhaps I&#8217;m not giving American sports fans enough credit, but having been to a number of matches of all sports here, I can distinctly say that &#8220;fandom&#8221; here doesn&#8217;t carry the same connotation that it does elsewhere in the world.  Maybe a few hundred fans carry the chanting load at a football (soccer) match.  There are maybe a handful of superfans per game at baseball or hockey games, playoffs aside.  It&#8217;s really one of the most disappointing things about American sports.  Once you&#8217;ve watched European sports you&#8217;re immediately disappointed at the level of fan passion here, and that is one of the difficult things about soccer catching on.  It is very much a sport and a world phenomenon built on fan passion.  It may very well be that simple fact that is lacking here which is needed to take the MLS to the next level in the end.</p>
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		<title>By: Paulo Pincaro</title>
		<link>http://www.gloriousfootball.com/mls/the-major-league-succubi-the-problems-plaguing-the-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-4402</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulo Pincaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 09:33:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gloriousfootball.com/?p=1043#comment-4402</guid>
		<description>Why do we see lifting the salary caps as a huge problem? How&#039;s about instead of taking over clubs in England we have owners take over clubs here. Not only is it a smaller investment, but it pisses off less people in the long run, all while adding much needed funds to the teams.

Another reason I see this as a completely invalid logic (that the salary cap doesn&#039;t need to be removed, mind you I didn&#039;t say it needed to be removed, but the current level is ridiculous, bump it to at least 10 million), is that there are poorer leagues out there. Case in point, Portugal. Outside of 5 teams, no one is getting anywhere NEAR 15,000. And we&#039;re definitely not getting any TV-deals that are worth substantially more than the MLS, and yet we are capable of bringing in good players even to the worser-off clubs. 

As for RBNY. Point taken, but at the same time, not. I realize having a team from New York is a top priority (keep in mind that there is a current effort on-going to get a team into one of the five boroughs)/was a top priority. However, perhaps they should&#039;ve waited until they had the money to invest into properly setting it up before they went ahead and just... set it up. It would&#039;ve caused much less headaches than the situation with Giants Stadium. I too feel that the new stadium will be a success, mainly because the stadium has the added benefit of being blocks away from a PATH station, making it easily accessible to by people from New York City. However, there is one simple thing that needs to be done. And that would be to clean up the surrounding area. The stadium is nice and all, but it just looks out of place sitting among rusted abandoned factories and basically, in the middle of what would other-wise be considered a junkyard. 

With regards to the fanbase. I agree that that will be an uphill battle, but I don&#039;t see why it&#039;s of importance whether or not they know of a league lower than the EPL. The point is, these are on-the-fence soccer fans who are the easiest targets, so if you&#039;re not even aiming for them 9and by all means the MLS doesn&#039;t aim for anybody really), you&#039;re not going to get them. And while the argument that people demand noteriety and success is a valid one, you are quickly forgetting that the only team doing NYC justice at the moment is the Yankees. The Knicks suck but they are still people in seats. The Mets? Horrifying awful, yet still with fans. I haven&#039;t been following hockey too much, but the last time I checked it the Rangers were in third place in their division (which is not impressive when it is out of five teams). I don&#039;t think we need to talk about the Giants, and the Jets were lucky to have gone as far as they did in the playoffs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why do we see lifting the salary caps as a huge problem? How&#8217;s about instead of taking over clubs in England we have owners take over clubs here. Not only is it a smaller investment, but it pisses off less people in the long run, all while adding much needed funds to the teams.</p>
<p>Another reason I see this as a completely invalid logic (that the salary cap doesn&#8217;t need to be removed, mind you I didn&#8217;t say it needed to be removed, but the current level is ridiculous, bump it to at least 10 million), is that there are poorer leagues out there. Case in point, Portugal. Outside of 5 teams, no one is getting anywhere NEAR 15,000. And we&#8217;re definitely not getting any TV-deals that are worth substantially more than the MLS, and yet we are capable of bringing in good players even to the worser-off clubs. </p>
<p>As for RBNY. Point taken, but at the same time, not. I realize having a team from New York is a top priority (keep in mind that there is a current effort on-going to get a team into one of the five boroughs)/was a top priority. However, perhaps they should&#8217;ve waited until they had the money to invest into properly setting it up before they went ahead and just&#8230; set it up. It would&#8217;ve caused much less headaches than the situation with Giants Stadium. I too feel that the new stadium will be a success, mainly because the stadium has the added benefit of being blocks away from a PATH station, making it easily accessible to by people from New York City. However, there is one simple thing that needs to be done. And that would be to clean up the surrounding area. The stadium is nice and all, but it just looks out of place sitting among rusted abandoned factories and basically, in the middle of what would other-wise be considered a junkyard. </p>
<p>With regards to the fanbase. I agree that that will be an uphill battle, but I don&#8217;t see why it&#8217;s of importance whether or not they know of a league lower than the EPL. The point is, these are on-the-fence soccer fans who are the easiest targets, so if you&#8217;re not even aiming for them 9and by all means the MLS doesn&#8217;t aim for anybody really), you&#8217;re not going to get them. And while the argument that people demand noteriety and success is a valid one, you are quickly forgetting that the only team doing NYC justice at the moment is the Yankees. The Knicks suck but they are still people in seats. The Mets? Horrifying awful, yet still with fans. I haven&#8217;t been following hockey too much, but the last time I checked it the Rangers were in third place in their division (which is not impressive when it is out of five teams). I don&#8217;t think we need to talk about the Giants, and the Jets were lucky to have gone as far as they did in the playoffs.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike D.</title>
		<link>http://www.gloriousfootball.com/mls/the-major-league-succubi-the-problems-plaguing-the-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-4401</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Jan 2010 03:13:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gloriousfootball.com/?p=1043#comment-4401</guid>
		<description>Going to give this a 5.0 for a number of reasons.  It seems like the overwhelming response worldwide to the MLS is &quot;get bigger or whatever.&quot;  But the league is still in its infancy.  They get under $50,000,000 in TV contracts whereas the NFL, EPL, MLB, etc all get in the high 9 figures if not billions.  Clubs are more concerned about staying in the black/solvent than buying million dollar superstars.  To have achieved what they have (nearly a 15,000 fan/game average) in 15 seasons whilst playing in often unattractive venues for the game is rather laudable.  Arguably with the right willing ownership groups, Miami would never have folded.  

The last thing on the MLS&#039; mind should be removal of the salary cap.  Free market might be the only way they can compete with Europe long term for players, but that point hasn&#039;t arrived yet.  In fact, models such as the NBA and MLB are precisely what the MLS needs to avoid, as the financial metrics at their very simplest are completely unsustainable.  Free market sports (especially here in the US and then at the highest levels of world football) are in for a very significant crash if they continue at their current cost growth pace.  

There are many more aspects to focus on for the league and the USSF:  youth development, sport-specific stadia, etc.  Surely the cap needs to increase somewhat, as to even attract players within our own nation (or indeed to come from elsewhere), the league minimum salary and indeed all league salaries need to be improved.  Right now league minimum is minor-league baseball-like.  But that doesn&#039;t come until there is more notoriety.  Sure you could take the gamble and go big or go home, but it&#039;s more about building something here. 

As sad as it is to say, it is not the MLS&#039; fault that the vast majority of American soccer fans are snobs of the game.  An overwhelming majority support Manchester United or Chelsea or Real Madrid or Barcelona.  Many I believe don&#039;t even know there is a professional league in England below the Premier League (Championship, League 1, etc).  Building such a grassroots base, especially in major media markets like New York, will certainly be tough as fans in these places want, even demand instant results or instant notoriety.

As for Red Bull NY  (Note that the name is one of my biggest pet peeves:  they&#039;re not the &quot;Red Bulls&quot; and in fact I think the team needs to stop referring to them as such.  They are Red Bull New York, like the sister club SV Red Bull Salzburg.), where else where they going to play?   A high school stadium?  Hofstra?  Giants Stadium surely isn&#039;t the ideal venue, but they&#039;re moving into a venue which I think will instantly become the class of the league.  One of the biggest problem in MLS development is the lack of fan protection from the elements in the new soccer-specific stadia.  Red Bull Arena&#039;s all-seater all-covered format is sure to bring in some on-the-fence fans purely out of the comfort of being in the dry attending the match.   Ties played in the wet at Giants Stadium were often poorly attended (8,000ish vs Houston last season in particular), that won&#039;t be the case anymore.  As for the league as a whole, synthetic pitches will be likely until everyone has their own stadium.   None of the new soccer-specifics have artificial surfaces.

That being said -- the primary thing to take away from this comment is the following:  MLS needs to focus on small goals at present:  youth academy/structure (including USSF discussions with the NCAA) and getting every last team (except maybe Seattle who could basically sell 75% of Qwest Field it seems if they wanted to) into a SSS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Going to give this a 5.0 for a number of reasons.  It seems like the overwhelming response worldwide to the MLS is &#8220;get bigger or whatever.&#8221;  But the league is still in its infancy.  They get under $50,000,000 in TV contracts whereas the NFL, EPL, MLB, etc all get in the high 9 figures if not billions.  Clubs are more concerned about staying in the black/solvent than buying million dollar superstars.  To have achieved what they have (nearly a 15,000 fan/game average) in 15 seasons whilst playing in often unattractive venues for the game is rather laudable.  Arguably with the right willing ownership groups, Miami would never have folded.  </p>
<p>The last thing on the MLS&#8217; mind should be removal of the salary cap.  Free market might be the only way they can compete with Europe long term for players, but that point hasn&#8217;t arrived yet.  In fact, models such as the NBA and MLB are precisely what the MLS needs to avoid, as the financial metrics at their very simplest are completely unsustainable.  Free market sports (especially here in the US and then at the highest levels of world football) are in for a very significant crash if they continue at their current cost growth pace.  </p>
<p>There are many more aspects to focus on for the league and the USSF:  youth development, sport-specific stadia, etc.  Surely the cap needs to increase somewhat, as to even attract players within our own nation (or indeed to come from elsewhere), the league minimum salary and indeed all league salaries need to be improved.  Right now league minimum is minor-league baseball-like.  But that doesn&#8217;t come until there is more notoriety.  Sure you could take the gamble and go big or go home, but it&#8217;s more about building something here. </p>
<p>As sad as it is to say, it is not the MLS&#8217; fault that the vast majority of American soccer fans are snobs of the game.  An overwhelming majority support Manchester United or Chelsea or Real Madrid or Barcelona.  Many I believe don&#8217;t even know there is a professional league in England below the Premier League (Championship, League 1, etc).  Building such a grassroots base, especially in major media markets like New York, will certainly be tough as fans in these places want, even demand instant results or instant notoriety.</p>
<p>As for Red Bull NY  (Note that the name is one of my biggest pet peeves:  they&#8217;re not the &#8220;Red Bulls&#8221; and in fact I think the team needs to stop referring to them as such.  They are Red Bull New York, like the sister club SV Red Bull Salzburg.), where else where they going to play?   A high school stadium?  Hofstra?  Giants Stadium surely isn&#8217;t the ideal venue, but they&#8217;re moving into a venue which I think will instantly become the class of the league.  One of the biggest problem in MLS development is the lack of fan protection from the elements in the new soccer-specific stadia.  Red Bull Arena&#8217;s all-seater all-covered format is sure to bring in some on-the-fence fans purely out of the comfort of being in the dry attending the match.   Ties played in the wet at Giants Stadium were often poorly attended (8,000ish vs Houston last season in particular), that won&#8217;t be the case anymore.  As for the league as a whole, synthetic pitches will be likely until everyone has their own stadium.   None of the new soccer-specifics have artificial surfaces.</p>
<p>That being said &#8212; the primary thing to take away from this comment is the following:  MLS needs to focus on small goals at present:  youth academy/structure (including USSF discussions with the NCAA) and getting every last team (except maybe Seattle who could basically sell 75% of Qwest Field it seems if they wanted to) into a SSS.</p>
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		<title>By: Paulo Pincaro</title>
		<link>http://www.gloriousfootball.com/mls/the-major-league-succubi-the-problems-plaguing-the-mls/comment-page-1/#comment-4398</link>
		<dc:creator>Paulo Pincaro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Jan 2010 16:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.gloriousfootball.com/?p=1043#comment-4398</guid>
		<description>To whoever gave my post, what I&#039;m going to assume was a 2-star rating. Please, if you&#039;re going to belittle my work, then have the heresay to offer up some critcism or throw in some debating material. I realize I&#039;m touching a hot button issue because MLS fans don&#039;t take kindly to someone who doesn&#039;t avidly watch or cheer on an MLS team commenting on their beloved league, but if you&#039;re just going to post a 2-star rating and then leave through the back-door, I think that just shows you have not many arguments or criticisms to make and are simply a bit full of yourself and your ridiculously set-up league.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To whoever gave my post, what I&#8217;m going to assume was a 2-star rating. Please, if you&#8217;re going to belittle my work, then have the heresay to offer up some critcism or throw in some debating material. I realize I&#8217;m touching a hot button issue because MLS fans don&#8217;t take kindly to someone who doesn&#8217;t avidly watch or cheer on an MLS team commenting on their beloved league, but if you&#8217;re just going to post a 2-star rating and then leave through the back-door, I think that just shows you have not many arguments or criticisms to make and are simply a bit full of yourself and your ridiculously set-up league.</p>
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